MEETING WITH HSE 2ND MAY 2008

FOFATO were represented by me (Ian Kershaw) and Paul Walker (Walkers Training Service).

Other's attending included representatives from the FWC, AIFAWTO and AOFA as well as representation from the QCA, the SQA and from an Awarding Body (ASET).

The agenda from HSE (below) made it very clear that as far as they were concerned that future Approval and Monitoring of the First Aid Industry would be conducted through the QCA/SQA.

AIM

To inform First Aid Training Organisations of HSE's plan to implement changes to First Aid training and approval arrangements.

OBJECTIVES

To emphasise the reasons for change.
To briefly review the key themes of the recent consultation exercise.
To allow participants to ask questions about the implementation plan.

FOFATO arrived early at the meeting so that we could ascertain the views of others including FWC and AIFAWTO regarding the QCA/SQA route. The impression we got was that they were not happy with this route but seemed resigned to the fact that it was already decided and could not do anything about it.

The meeting began with HSE giving the following information:

HSE stated that it was their intention to:

Help business meet First Aid needs in proportionate way
Help reduce cost to duty holders


HSE stated that the following was already agreed through consultation:

Paramedics would be exempt
No more than 12 students per trainer
1 assessor for up to 6 students

HSE stated that from the Consultation the following Problem Areas still existed:

Going down QCA/SQA route
Number of First Aiders in Workplace Flowchart
Training Organisations to run 6 courses per year

Next for HSE:

Continue to engage with QCA/SQA about costs
Continue to review First Aiders in the Workplace flowchart
Review requirement for 6 courses

Guidance from HSE:

For SME?s
For First Aid Training Organisations
Electronic First Aid needs Assessment

QCA/SQA and Awarding Body

Several points were made by QCA/SQA and the Awarding Body in relation to the benefits of going down this route. They also attempted to allay the fears of Training Organisations by talking through the issues of bureaucracy, cost and monitoring.

The impression that was formed by both me and Paul was that the meeting was just a selling pitch from QCA/SQA and the Awarding Body.

Bureaucracy (Paper Work)

It was accepted by the Awarding Body that there was a lot of paperwork involved but none more than if you working with an Awarding Body for any qualification

Awarding Body Costs

£395 (approx) annually
£15 (approx) per Student (certification)

All costs include VAT.

Certification

The name of the your Training Organisation may not appear on the certificates you issue but that of the Awarding Body

Monitoring

It was stated that the monitors for First Aid Training would be subject competent. FOFATO asked for confirmation of this which seemed to be given by the Awarding Body that was present (but we are yet to be convinced about this from previous knowledge and information).

Funding

LSC Funding may be available at the present time for EFAW Training up until the EFAW course becomes nationally recognised by HSE (October 2009) at which time no LSC funding will be available. However other types of funding may still be available like European Social Funding but this would be the case whether the course was run through QCA/SQA or not.

General Discussion

A general discussion then ensued where the main topic was around the QCA/SQA route for approval.

FOFATO stated that the vast majority of it members were from ?small? Training Organisations and virtually everyone objected to the QCA/SQA route for the reason given in our previous feedback namely bureaucracy, cost and monitoring.

FOTATO asked several questions to the QCA/SQA and Awarding Body during the meeting particularly relating to monitoring, costs and funding. However there seemed little concern from FWC, AIFAWTO and AOFA as they did not get heavily involved in the discussion other than saying that they felt that QCA/SQA was ultimately the way forward something that FOFATO do not accept.

One of HSE?s stated intentions in the proposed changes was to reduce costs to duty holders. How can this be the case when the costs of providing First Aid training through the QCA/SQA route are going to be considerably higher.

A final comment from HSE indicated that they were aware of concerns from within the Industry probably indicating that they have already received letters from Members of Parliament. (This leads us to believe the decision is still one that can be changed).

Overall FOFATO left the meeting very disillusioned for three main reasons. Firstly because HSE are determined to move forward with QCA/SQA despite many Independent Training Organisations being totally against this route secondly we felt that none of our fears had been eased and thirdly the other representative organisations FWC, AIFAWTO and AOFA (who represent a number of Independent Organisations) were of the opinion that the QCA/SQA was the correct route to take even for FAW training despite the issues that have already been raised.

Myself and Paul (Walker) still feel that the thoughts of FOFATO regarding the creation of an Industry Body are the way forward because it is felt that this is the wish of the majority of Independent Training Organisations rather than a QCA/SQA route.

It must be made very clear to all HSE Training Organisations that in the short term the proposed changes will not affect you because we are talking about new Training Organisations only wanting to run EFAW courses going down the QCA/SQA route at the present time but in the longer term the proposal is for FAW courses to go down the same route.

Finally it was agreed by HSE that the implementation date for the introduction of the 3 day FAW and 1 day EFAW would be October 2009.

Next Steps

To collate the views of Federation Members

To gain support of more Independent Training Organisations (because there are still a lot that are not represented)

To continue to lobby our Members of Parliament

To continue dialogue with the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB)

To canvass support from your clients (because ultimately they are going to pay for the increase in costs of going down QCA/SQA route)

or simply accept the situation. I know which I prefer but the decision is now in the hands of Federation members.